Billie Eilish is the first artist born this century to hit number one in the Billboard charts. From signing a record deal at 14, she's gone on to become an era-defining star.
Billie Eilish 是本世纪出生的第一位在 Billboard 排行榜上排名第一的艺术家。从 14 岁签署唱片合约开始，她就成为了一个划时代的明星。
Along the way, she's picked up seven Grammys, two Brits, become the youngest star to headline Coachella and Glastonbury and won an Oscar. She's grown up online in the public gaze, connecting her to a global digital generation.
一路上，她获得了七项格莱美奖，两项全英音乐奖，成为科切拉音乐节和格拉斯顿伯里音乐节上最年轻的明星，并获得奥斯卡奖。她在公众的注视下伴随着网络长大，将她与全球数字一代联系起来。
Performing to sell-out arenas with her songwriter brother FINNEAS, Billie's also joined by her environmentalist parents on tour. She's also got over 100 million followers across social media, making her one of the most influential young stars of her generation.
碧梨和她的歌曲作者哥哥 FINNEAS 一起在售罄的竞技场表演，她的环保家父母也参加了巡回演出。她在社交媒体上也有 1 亿粉丝，使她成为她这一代最有影响力的年轻明星之一。
And this is the final night of her world tour, and I've come to have a chat with her. Billie Eilish, welcome to BBC 100 Women, thank you so much for doing this.
这是她世界巡演的最后一晚，我是来和她聊天的。Billie Eilish，欢迎来到 BBC 100 Women，非常感谢你的参与。
Thank you for having me. How are you doing?
谢谢你们邀请我。你过得怎么样？
I'm doing very well. So I'm gonna read you a couple of descriptions of you in the press.
我过得很好。所以我要给你读一些媒体对你的描述。
Okay, go for it. An icon. The hope for pop music's future.
好的，来吧。一个偶像。流行音乐未来的希望。
A weird but important feminist. What does that even mean?
一个奇怪但重要的女权主义者。这到底是什么意思？
How would you describe yourself? Oh my God, I have no idea. I don't know.
你会如何形容你自己？天啊，我不知道。我不知道。
I feel like I might have known how to answer that question like, couple years ago. I don't know anymore. Because I don't look at myself in that way, I don't look at myself like I'm something to explain.
我觉得几年前我可能知道该怎么回答这个问题。现在不知道了。因为我不那样看待自己，我不认为自己是需要解释的东西。
You know what I mean? I just exist. I'm just a person.
你懂我的意思吧？我只是存在着。我只是一个人而已。
I'm just existing and doing my part in life. You said a couple of years ago that you don't think there are many headlining opportunities for women.
我只是存在并在生活中尽我的一份力量。几年前你说过，你认为女性没有太多的当主唱的机会。
And then look at you, the youngest person to headline Glastonbury. What do you think has changed for women in that time? Or has anything changed?
然后看看现在的你，格拉斯顿伯里音乐节演出里最年轻的人。你认为在那段时间里女性发生了什么变化？或者有什么变化吗？
I think a lot has changed. I think like, we're in such a, I mean, I'm just in awe of the time we're in right now, because of women are just like at the top right now.
我认为很多都变了。我想，我们正处于这样一个，我是说，我只是对我们现在所处的时代感到敬畏，因为女人现在就像在顶端。
I mean, top of all the charts, it's women, women, women, I mean, it's like the most incredible thing for me to see. Because it's just not been that way, you know?
我是说，在所有的排行榜上，都是女人，女人，女人，我是说，这对我来说是最不可思议的事情。因为以前不是那样的，你知道吗？
And to see festival ad mats come out and it's like so many women on them now. There was a specific period of time where I was just like, in this, like pit of just like hopelessness about myself.
现在各种节日广告条幅上面很多女性。有一段特定的时间，我就像，在这个，就像对自己绝望的深渊。
Because I didn't have much to look up to in terms of girls like me being looked at taken seriously in that regard, you know. It was like everything completely male-dominated.
因为像我这样的女孩很少在这方面被认真对待。好像一切都完全由男性主导。
I mean not even a question, you know. I mean, everything is still that way, but it's better. And just like...I remember, just like crying in my bed because I was, I was thinking about the kind of show that I would want to put on.
我的意思是甚至这都不算是一个问题，我是说，一切都还是那样，但现在好多了。就像……我记得，就像在床上哭，因为我在想我想上演什么样的节目。
And I would just feel so like, hopeless, because I was like, I'm a girl and so I'm never gonna be able to have a show like that. I'm never going to be able to just be, you know, free up there and wild and like, not, you know, not have this and this going on, and like, you know, perform in this way and be more physical and be more about the performance and less about the little, little things.
我会觉得很绝望，因为我想，我是个女孩，所以我永远也不可能有这样的演出。我永远无法，你知道，在那里自由，狂野，就像，不，你知道，没有这个和这个，就像，你知道，以这种方式表演，更加身体化，更多地关注表演，而不是做一些小事。
And I just, I just felt like that would never happen, because it hadn't really happened. Just behind those windows, we've got people camped out, they were here last night when we popped in.
我只是，我只是觉得这永远不会发生，因为它还没有真正发生。就在那些窗户后面，有人在外面露营，昨晚我们进来的时候他们就在这里。
Just like they were having so much fun, like listening to your music, getting to know each other and stuff. Do you feel the kind of pressure of being that role model for so many young women now with this huge platform that you have?
就像他们玩得很开心一样，比如听你的音乐，互相了解等等。在你拥有的这个巨大的平台上，你感觉到成为这么多年轻女性的榜样的压力了吗？
No, I don't feel pressure. I feel so stoked about it. I feel so excited about it.
不，我没有感到压力。我对此感到非常振奋。我对此感到非常兴奋。
And I don't even feel like, oh, I'm a role model, I mean you do these and these. I just feel like I'm truly in love with them. In love with them.
我甚至不觉得，哦，我是一个榜样，还得做这些那些的。我只是觉得我真的爱上了他们。
And it's like you don't even...when you're in love with someone, you don't think about how you might be affecting them because they're affecting you so much. And that's kind of how I feel about them.
就像你甚至不知道……当你爱上某人时，你不会考虑你会如何影响他们，因为他们对你的影响太大了。这也是我对他们的感觉。
I'm like, I've just like over time with different experiences and relationships. I've just been like, felt more and more committed to them.
我就像，我只是喜欢随着时间的推移有不同的经历和关系。我只是觉得对他们越来越坚定。
You know what I mean? It's like, I feel like I'm like in a relationship with them. So any friendship or relationship, romantic, whatever.
你明白我的意思吗？就像，我觉得我和他们在一起。所以任何友谊或爱情，不管怎样。
They're like, one of the first things I say I'm like, just so you know, you're getting me but you're also getting them. -That's like what I say...-Do you say that to boyfriends too? -Yeah, yeah.
他们就像，我说的第一件事，我就像，正如你所知，你得到了我，但你也得到了他们。-就像我说的…-你也对男朋友这么说吗？-是的，是的。
Just FYI, they come first. So you know, if you want to get with me, you gotta get with my fans.
仅供参考，他们是第一位的。所以你知道，如果你想和我在一起，你必须和我的粉丝在一起。
Four days. We've been here since Tuesday night… And for this tour we've camped over 300 hours, close to 400 hours. This is for You Should See Me In A Crown.
四天了。我们从星期二晚上就一直在这里……为了这次旅行，我们已经露营了 300 多个小时，将近 400 个小时。这是为了纪念 You Should See Me In A Crow 这首歌。
And then I've got her playing cards on my forearms, which are the Joker and the King. And then I've got a devil and an angel for All the Good Girls Go to Hell.
然后我把她的扑克牌纹在我的前臂上，分别是小丑和国王。然后为了纪念 All the Good Girls Go to Hell 我还纹了一个魔鬼和一个天使。
I can't even explain it. She's just meant so much to me since the beginning, since she was so young. The way that she is so open about our emotions and like lets everybody else feel like it's okay to feel that way.
我甚至解释不清。她从一开始就对我很重要，因为她还很年轻。她对我们的情感如此开放的方式让其他人觉得这种感觉是可以的。
Like she's unique, and it's very different. Like she doesn't speak about love songs as much. She speaks more about personal issues I find really interesting.
好像她很独特，非常不同。比如说她不怎么唱情歌。她更多地谈论个人问题，我觉得非常有趣。
Body image, environment, things like that. Yeah. just like everything, pretty much everything that matters.
身体形象，环境，诸如此类的东西。是的。就像包含一切，几乎所有重要的事情。
Growing up in the public eye is a very bruising experience. And it's really hard to develop and change, for a lot of reasons.
在公众面前长大是一次非常痛苦的经历。发展和改变真的很难，原因很多。
And so it was, it was hard for me and I just didn't really know what to do. And so I was just grasping at straws and like, yeah, just like things were, I just didn't know what I was doing.
所以，这对我来说很难，我真的不知道该怎么办。所以我只是抓住救命稻草，就像我不知道我在做什么一样。
I mean, I just had such severe imposter syndrome. I've had that so many times in my life, and really just like, some parts of last year and the year before, just like...was just in a downward spiral of imposter syndrome and just grasping it, whatever I could to make me feel like myself again.
我是说，我刚刚得了如此严重的冒名顶替综合症。我生命中有好几次，真的就像，去年和前年的某些时候，就像……只是处于冒名顶替综合症的螺旋式下降中，只是抓住它，尽我所能让我感觉又像自己了。
But I didn't know. When you say imposter syndrome, you mean feeling that you don't deserve the success?
但我不知道。当你说冒名顶替综合症时，你的意思是觉得你不配成功？
More just like, when you see yourself in the public eye, especially me, I'm an internet kid. Like, I saw everybody else in the public eye and then suddenly, it's me.
更像是，当你在公众眼中看到自己，尤其是我作为一个互联网之子。就像，我在公众眼中看到了其他人，然后突然，就变成了我。
And I'm like, I'm on the internet just as much as anybody else is. But then it's like, oh, I'm part of the discussion now, instead of just in the comments, which is a very strange little thing.
我就像，我和其他人一样上网。但是后来就像，哦，我现在是讨论的一部分，而不仅仅是在评论中，这是一件非常奇怪的小事。
And when you see yourself and your name everywhere, it's really hard to know who the hell you are. And also, what you like, and don't like, because you kind of, especially because I got known as a thing.
当你到处看到你自己和你的名字时，真的很难知道你到底是谁。还有，你喜欢什么，不喜欢什么，因为你有点，尤其是我为人所知之后。
When I was 15, mainly, that was when it kind of started really, even though I started at 13, like 15 was when people decided that that was who I was. So it's really hard to change and grow and grow up and mature and like, become a human when people decided that you were one thing, because then they think about you they think that that's you forever.
主要是在我 15 岁的时候，那是真正开始的时候，尽管我 13 岁开始出名，大概 15 岁是人们决定我是谁的时候。所以很难改变、成长、成熟，当人们认为你是一回事时，成为一个人，因为那时他们会觉得你是这样的，他们认为你永远都是那样的。
I mean it absolutely drives me insane that you can look up Billie Eilish and videos that come up are things I said when I was 15! Like almost nothing I said before two months ago, I still believe.
我的意思是，你可以查找 Billie Eilish 和一些相关视频，这些视频是我 15 岁时说的话！这让我觉得很抓马。就像两个月前我几乎什么都没说过一样，我仍然相信。
So it's like, it's a trip. One thing you did say though, was like when you think about your identity, you like sort of amalgamating masculine and feminine.
所以，这就像是一次旅行。你确实说过一件事，就像当你考虑你的身份时，你喜欢融合男性和女性。
Do you do you think about yourself like that still? Yeah, I mean, I feel the most powerful when I feel masculine in my life, and I also can find power in femininity.
你还会那样想自己吗？是的，我是说，当我在生活中感到男性化时，我感觉最强大，我也能在女性身上找到力量。
It's kind of a balance of both, but I... What do you mean by masculine?
这是两者的平衡，但是我……你说的阳刚是什么意思？
I don't know. I've like depending on how I walk and stand and my clothes, and my face and my jewelry and my fingers and my like, just everything that I am day to day, like I feel more masculine than feminine, it just makes me feel better. Which I struggled with for a long time because I wanted to feel feminine and like it but I just didn't really and so.
我也不知道。我喜欢取决于我走路、站立的方式和我的衣服、我的脸、我的珠宝、我的手指等等，就像我每天的一切一样，我觉得自己更男性化而不是女性化，这只会让我感觉好些。我为此挣扎了很长时间，因为我想感觉自己很女性化，喜欢它，但我就是不喜欢。
But then it's like finding moments where you can have that and it feels good still, you know. Like right now I'm wearing a tighter shirt and I'm wearing a more low-cut shirt and like, you know, the older me would have been like, ugh, please don't.
但这就像找到你能拥有的时刻，感觉仍然很好，你知道。就像现在我穿着一件更紧的衬衫，我穿着一件更低胸的衬衫，就像，你知道，年纪大的我会对自己说，呃，请不要这样。
But I like it, it makes me feel good now, and it's just the balance of the two, you know. In your Apple documentary, there was a lovely moment in where Katy Perry pulls you to the side.
但我喜欢它，它让我现在感觉很好，这只是两者的平衡。在你的苹果纪录片中，有一个可爱的时刻，凯蒂·佩里把你拉到一边。
And she says, you know, if you ever need someone to have a chat with, just give me a call because it's about to get crazy in the next few years. Have you taken her up on that?
她说，如果你需要有人聊天，给我打电话，因为在接下来的几年里事情会变得疯狂。你接受她的建议了吗？
No, I never called her, I should call her up. I mean...but it's so funny thinking about that now, because at the time, I just didn't believe her, like, I just didn't...well, I just didn't think it would keep going, you know.
不，我从来没有给她打过电话，我应该给她打电话。我是说……但是现在想想很有趣，因为当时，我只是不相信她，就像，我只是不……嗯，我只是没想到会继续下去，你知道。
I mean, I think that it's really hard to see your future like that, you know, when your future is so kind of in the hands of not just you. Because I would hear that a lot. I would hear...
我是说，我认为很难像那样看到你的未来，你知道，当你的未来不仅仅掌握在你手中的时候。因为我会经常听到这个。我会听到……
And not only is it hard to believe, but it's hard to process, you know, and like, know what the hell to do at all. And when somebody says, like, you know, it's about to get crazy.
不仅很难相信，而且很难处理，你知道，就像，知道到底该做什么。当有人说，就像这将变得疯狂。
-It's about...-Crazier. Yeah, yeah, I was always so crazier.
-是关于……-越来越疯狂。是的，是的，我总是越来越疯。
I couldn't imagine it being crazier. And also, I was just like, you just can't possibly imagine.
我无法想象这会更疯狂。还有，我就像，你简直无法想象。
It's like, you know, trying to explain a colour that doesn't exist. You just you don't know, you don't know.
就像，你知道，试图解释一种不存在的颜色。你只是你不知道，你不知道。
So my final question is, you know, this theme for this year's 100 Women is progress. As a woman in music, has there been progress?
所以我的最后一个问题是，你知道，今年 100 位女性的主题是进步。作为音乐界的女性有进步吗？
I think so. I think there's been a lot of progress. I feel, you know, I was excited with the idea of this being about progress, because I feel that there has been a lot and there's been a lot of back-peddling.
我想是的。我认为已经有了很大的进步。我觉得，你知道，我对这个关于进步的想法很兴奋，因为我觉得有很多倒退事件。
Also, you know, with more like the world and the laws and all of that, but I think... Laws like Roe V Wade?
还有，你知道，更像是世界和法律之类的，但是我想…像罗诉韦德这样的法律？
Yeah. You know, we're going back in time in certain areas, which makes me want to throw up, but I do, I do think there has been a lot of progress. And again, the way that women have been just like, absolutely towering over everyone in this industry right now is so exciting to me.
是的。你知道，我们在某些领域回到了过去，这让我想吐，但我知道，我确实认为已经有了很大的进步。而且，女性在这个行业已经超过了其他人，这一点让我很兴奋。
And it just makes me feel really, really hopeful and inspired. And, and it's not only women doing one thing, it's women doing all kinds of different things, and looking different and acting different and having different styles.
这让我感到非常非常充满希望和鼓舞。而且，女人不仅仅只能做一件事，女人会做各种各样的事情，看起来不同，行为不同，风格不同。
Just like I just love it so much. There's such a range right now. And it's so nice to see.
就像我非常喜欢它一样。现在有这么一个范围。很高兴看到这个局面。
And it's just so it's just refreshing. I don't know, it's new. It's never been like that.
这让人耳目一新。我不知道，这是新的时代。以前从未有过。
And it's just really, it's exciting. And it's really cool to be a part of it. So...Feel hopeful. I'm hopeful, very hopeful.
这真的很令人兴奋。成为其中的一员真的很酷。因此……感到充满希望。我充满希望，非常充满希望。
Thank you so much, we had such a good time. -Of course, thanks for having me.
谢谢你的参与，我们度过了一段很棒的时光。
-不客气，谢谢你的邀请。
